Proportional setup options

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JaFa
Beiträge: 9
Registriert: Do 15. Okt 2020, 01:51

Proportional setup options

Beitrag von JaFa »

Dear Beier CREW, Im working on the setup of your module and hitting a problem,

I Use Proportional channel 4 and 5 for 2 anchor winches, based on a servo system, anyway, the limitation i encountered is the neutral zone of the proportional system, You created 5 Zones, but the neutral zone is really fixed in the middel. It would be great if it would be free. I have a few servos with asymetric positioning and here i lose the possibility for this sounds, also why is in the neutral zone no sound available? Could this be changed in a future update?

Another limitation i encountered is the following you have motor sounds and they follow nicely the stick deflection, this would be great on winches to, i have on the boat 6 working proportional winches, but no way to syncronise proportional sound to it, at the moment i use single speed sounds but would be much nicer if also this could ge proportional...

Anyway i love the module that why i posted these then it can only getting better!
Rascal
Beiträge: 3252
Registriert: Do 9. Okt 2014, 01:31

Re: Proportional setup options

Beitrag von Rascal »

Hello,
JaFa hat geschrieben: Sa 31. Okt 2020, 13:43I Use Proportional channel 4 and 5 for 2 anchor winches, based on a servo system,
Which module are you using - SFR-1?
anyway, the limitation i encountered is the neutral zone of the proportional system, You created 5 Zones, but the neutral zone is really fixed in the middel. It would be great if it would be free. I have a few servos with asymetric positioning and here i lose the possibility for this sounds, ...
Not sure if you are aware but there is an option to change the size of the zones (within limits) by moving the blue squares on the left up or down. Is that sufficient for your needs?

If not please give an example of what you are trying to achieve so we can understand the requirement better.
also why is in the neutral zone no sound available? Could this be changed in a future update?
That needs to be answered by Andy. :)
Another limitation i encountered is the following you have motor sounds and they follow nicely the stick deflection, this would be great on winches to, i have on the boat 6 working proportional winches, but no way to syncronise proportional sound to it, at the moment i use single speed sounds but would be much nicer if also this could ge proportional...
There is a possibility to sync your winches with proportional sound if your transmitter has mixers:
Just mix the 6 channels to another channel that you connect with one of the prop channels of the SFR-1.
Then configure "Engine Sound 2" to take the speed from that prop channel under Configuration > Engine sound > Engine sound 2. You can add the same or different sound files under the Engine sound 2 tab in the main menu.
JaFa
Beiträge: 9
Registriert: Do 15. Okt 2020, 01:51

Re: Proportional setup options

Beitrag von JaFa »

Ok, thanks for the fast reply, there is the need for some extra explanation it seems. I use a X9é from frysky, with an optional XJT having 32 in fact 30 prop Channels and 2 NMV multiswitches of 28 switches each, so 30 props and 56 switches...

I use 2 motors with an 360° truster steering, a bow prop, 6 independent winches, 2 anchor winches, 5 channels in an fully articulated Palfinger crane (1/50)
2 arduino controlled smokers to give burst in function of trust. 2 movable Fire monitors with eSC controlled pumps 2 movable SAR lights.

And a full FPV system in the bridge, giving me only one of the 30 channels free... I Use the USM RC2 (initialy wit the EXM2 but replaced that by an arduino multiswitch controller for more freedom).

You may find the build here: https://www.modelbouwforum.nl/threads/u ... 50.269195/

Sorry the explanation is in dutch, but thats really close to German

I know the prop channels are changeable but the blue handels don't go over the middel position they are limited to 5 ticks of the middel.

What I want is that there is the possibility to freely controle the neutral zone if you have a center of the servo at 100% richt that tis position could be your neutral of even no neutral at all... Now it really limited to the middel position and that fine for a truck but for a crane its useless.

My Anchor sits free of sound in the top position but going all the way down it has a fall sound, going all the way up an up sound, no problem here, but then it goes to an intermediate position, just hanging out the anchor box, and there i need 2 sounds a small drop from full up to hanging and from hanging to full raised. At that position i need in fact 2 sounds but by programing the transmitter i could let it go slightly deeper in one of the 2 commands, just enough to trigger the next sound band. But the lower band C/D will not go over that middle point. I tried wit the trims to set that specific point to the middel so i could trigger the second C/D band but then the anchor hangs to deep and i'm at the full extend of the trim...
A mix over another channel would do the trick but i don't have it anymore available...

I can't use channel 2 as a proportional channel for the winches because its used for the 2de motor. But its something to keep in mind maybe with a 2de USM RC2 module... I just would have been cool to have all the prop channels really treat the sound as a proportional sound an not a fancy switch option. Or maybe the mix of the to that you can make the choice between the two...

Any way i hop i explained myself and the wishes, anyway its a mega cool sound module no doubt about that but it would be even better if it would be Mega Super COOL not?

Thanks for you fast reply this is really fantastic service!

Kind regards

Jan
Rascal
Beiträge: 3252
Registriert: Do 9. Okt 2014, 01:31

Re: Proportional setup options

Beitrag von Rascal »

Hello Jan,
JaFa hat geschrieben: So 1. Nov 2020, 14:20What I want is that there is the possibility to freely controle the neutral zone if you have a center of the servo at 100% richt
Not sure I understand this - how can you have the 'center of a servo' at 100%? Do you mean something like a start / home position perhaps, i.e. the servo alway starts from e.g. +100% and moves from there to max. -100% instead of starting from 0%?
that tis position could be your neutral of even no neutral at all... Now it really limited to the middel position and that fine for a truck but for a crane its useless.
I see but the neutral zone is tied to the neutral position of the stick / potentiometer or a switch in "off" position on the transmitter. It's not meant to be a start or home position for the device (crane etc.) driven by a servo or ESC on that channel but rather for detecing when the stick/potentiometer/switch is in the middle/off position.
Changing the concept of the N zone would therefore cause a lot of confusion in my opinion, though Andy will be the judge of that (and he can also say if it's technically feasible).
My Anchor sits free of sound in the top position but going all the way down it has a fall sound, going all the way up an up sound, no problem here, but then it goes to an intermediate position, just hanging out the anchor box, and there i need 2 sounds a small drop from full up to hanging and from hanging to full raised. At that position i need in fact 2 sounds but by programing the transmitter i could let it go slightly deeper in one of the 2 commands, just enough to trigger the next sound band. But the lower band C/D will not go over that middle point. I tried wit the trims to set that specific point to the middel so i could trigger the second C/D band but then the anchor hangs to deep and i'm at the full extend of the trim...
Perhaps we can find a solution to this problem:
Can you explain in detail how you control the anchor (using stick, potentiometer or switch, other)? Are you using a proportional signal (for a servo or ESC) and that is split to one the prop channels at the USM for triggering the sounds? Or are you using the servo outputs on the USM, in which case please state if you use direct control or servo positions?

Please include what input device (stick, switch etc.) you use and how the channel of the input device is connected with the USM, as well as how the anchor motor is driven (ESC?) and connected to the USM.
I can't use channel 2 as a proportional channel for the winches because its used for the 2de motor. But its something to keep in mind maybe with a 2de USM RC2 module... I just would have been cool to have all the prop channels really treat the sound as a proportional sound an not a fancy switch option. Or maybe the mix of the to that you can make the choice between the two...
You don't have to use Prop #2 for Engine sound 2 / the winches, you can instead select Prop #3 or #4, assuming one of them is still available.

Engine sound 2 may be used for the 2nd motor but you can also combine Prop #1 and #2 to Engine Sound [1] by selecting "2 motors for engine sound" under Configuration > Engine Sound > Engine Sound > Engine sound options (with additional options in the upper left corner).
Then select "Speed from channel:" Prop #4 for Engine sound 2 under Configuration > Engine Sound > Engine Sound 2 for the prop channel that contains the mixed signal of the winches.
Any way i hop i explained myself and the wishes, anyway its a mega cool sound module no doubt about that but it would be even better if it would be Mega Super COOL not?
Sure, any suggestion is welcome and many features are based on user requirements and wishes like yours. 8-)
JaFa
Beiträge: 9
Registriert: Do 15. Okt 2020, 01:51

Re: Proportional setup options

Beitrag von JaFa »

Servo startup or center position, yes with many of the new transmitters you can setup the position of the servo where you want eg position at 100% and throw -100% or -500% is your servo allows... OpenTX allows all that on all there functions. But if you would ellimitate the fixed center position in the USM program this would be solved directly. then the sliders could be go over the mid position als well.

The neutral zone you mention is nice for all truck drivers and car guys, but if you make function models, where this soundUnit really kicks then i believe you must think a bit out of the box as well , and an elimination of a neutral zone is in my opinion not confusing but give the guy's who need this the required extra flexibility.
The "intobox" projects can simply remain using the same setting, you could set the there as default so initialy nothing would change...

For the anchors i found my selves a solution, I use modified servo winches, where on the upthrow, i redirect the current via a Buck convertor, who limit the voltage to 1,1 volt to the servo motor, here i get a nice slow upward movement.

Look at the test vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04nRqML ... e=youtu.be

Going via a 3 position switch i needed the mid position to get 2 sounds, i worked around this, by in one case play the sound complete and in the other case (shorter sound) stop it as soon as something else starts.
By making the volume of the first sound 10% higher you don't hear the cutout of the shorter one...
Its not as it should be, because i always need to go via the middle position but it works.

I trigger the sounds by a curve with two flat parts and a slower channel rate so its just long enough to trigger it (the servo winches don't listen to this reduced rate because the multi turing just takes far longer then the slowdown in speed) , its complex in function, but as soon as it its setup correctly its seems to work properly ...

The sound of the winches is not solvable with just motor sound 2, there are 6 winches, 4 of them are different in size so different in speed and sound,
1 extra proportional sound wil not solves this, but its good thinking!

Here you get the idea: General overview at the stern:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv2MGh7 ... e=youtu.be

- the 2 secundary winchdrums:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o3vvkw ... e=youtu.be

the ReelWinch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZwxDOZ ... e=youtu.be

Then there ara 2 side "tugger" winches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJey4m6 ... e=youtu.be

And not to forget the front winch with the anchor options:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvN9sZO ... e=youtu.be
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